Donald Trump’s sweeping new plan to deport 11 million illegal immigrants includes a provision that also targets 12.6 million green card holders whom the authorities even suspect of even the most trivial offense. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see where Trump’s mass deportation plan is heading next.
Under Trump’s Rules, Just About Anyone Could Be Deported
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This is the Democrats’ fault. Yes. It is. For years and years, the Democrats did not (fill in the blank) get universal healthcare through, prevent gerrymandering and redrawing of districts, deactivate the war on drugs, simplify immigration, etc. They were woefully ineffective and have been for at least 30 years (I start the clock on their ineptitude retroactively at the point in time that wages started to stagnate.)
I don’t want to hear Standard Democrat Response #42463/J about how mean the Republicans were. All parties face opposition. That isn’t an excuse, and it isn’t a reason. The effective parties are the ones that overcome opposition. If the Democrats aren’t able to Get. It. Done. they should realize that they don’t have what it takes and turn the job over to someone else, rather than continuing to cheat their own system to keep their inner circle of cronies afloat.
The reality that a lot of the Dems don’t want to face is that, frankly, like a lot of other hot-button Democratic issues, the Dems say one thing, and NIMBY another. “I celebrate diversity, but if you think I’m letting that tranny psycho teach my kid, my precious darling, the future of mankind, I mean humanity, you are out of your mind.” or “I think immigrants are vital and an important part of this country but goddamned it, can’t they learn to speak English for Christ’s sake?” or “Hillary Clinton is a great leader, and anyone who picks on her for her warhawk tendencies and tight, secretive bonds to Wall Street and the power elite is a sexist. And asking for any actual accomplishments made by HRC is offensive to all women. She’s highly accomplished, and I’m not going to provide a list because… because. So there.”
The reality is that many people are in this country illegally. I don’t want a made-up “outragedebate” about this. The word is “illegal.” It is used because it describes the action’s most relevant aspect. Their children born here? They are also here illegally. Whose fault is that? The parents who came here illegally. “See, Jenny. Your mom and I love meth. So we both smoked a lot of it around the time you were conceived. Your mom also liked a couple glasses of bourbon every night before bed. That wasn’t our fault either. Anyway, that’s why you’re all messed up. The meth. And the bourbon. The cigarettes probably didn’t help any, either. But you can see how, totally, we’re the victims here.”
There are lots of good countries out there: Australia, New Zealand, several places in Europe, Canada. It isn’t like the U.S. is the only place on Earth that offers opportunity (and it doesn’t really do that anymore, does it). The economics of the issue are the real focal point. You want it stopped? Simple. Deal with the robberbarrons who use illegal labor.
“Deal with the robberbarrons who use illegal labor.”
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I’ve been saying that for decades, but those in charge don’t want to hear it.
Can you imagine the effect it would have if Wal-Mart and Tyson Foods were fined $20,000 for each illegal immigrant they employed?
😀
Screw fines. The only way this’ll stop is if the Board of Directors is stabbing at trash on the side of a highway with a stick with a nail on the end of it. One month for each illegal alien. Oh, yes. It will work. But … if it doesn’t, let’s at least give it a try. Say, a pilot program for 10 years. Then we can look at the results. Did making millionaires pick up trash cure them of their “profit, profit uber alles” mentality?
If lawmakers can’t be persuaded to legislate fines for employers who willingly violate the immigration laws, how much chance do you give for prison time????
It’s a shame to see you’ve bought into the “progressive” nonsense, Alex. While you’ve always had a ridiculously generous notion about what can actually be accomplished in the eyeblink between elections I never considered you to have the paucity of spirit necessary to buy into the notion that if you can just make your fellow Americans suffer enough, they will suddenly buy into an unnecessary and frankly counterproductive “revolution”.
“Progressives” , NOT Democrats have been the problem ever since they bought into the false narrative that electing Republicans will make the Democratic Party go left; when the OBVIOUS reality is that the only message electing Republicans sends to the Democrats is “America wants Republican policies. Be more like Republicans”. Combine that with their ridiculous timetable expectations caused by confusing how they think the system SHOULD work, when in reality there is no one who could deliver what they want in the timetable they want it- because the system DOESN’T work that way. Combine those two things , and you not only explain Trump, but the mess the world is in today.
Imagine if instead of buying into right wing bunk and stubbornly sticking their head in the sand, “progressives” had accepted the fact that most, if not all Democratic goals would require a generation or more to fully implement and every time they threw a temper tantrum the clock would reset to zero; imagine if they decided to value improving life for future generations over their precious “purity”, by rewarding Democrats for getting done what ACTUALLY could get done instead of holding them to some ridiculous standard no one could meet. Imagine how much better off the world would be now. . . we’d be on the second generation of people who grew up with single payer, for starters.
> “Progressives” .. bought into the false narrative that electing Republicans will make the Democratic Party go left;
Wait? What? Can you name even ONE progressive who’s ever said that? Back here on planet Earth, it’s the democrats who think they can move the party left by electing republicans such as Hillary.
So how does that work, exactly? Are you emulating Columbus? Reach left by sailing right?
Its a paraphrase. It’s not exactly what they said, but reality shows its what most “progressives” (not actual progressives) believe.
Oh … really? Well, then, I guess that means there is some true progressive whose quote you can ‘paraphrase’ into meaning ‘elect republicans.’ Please enlighten us all by posting that quote here.
The dummycrats who backed Hillary had far more to do with Trump’s election than those of us who backed someone who could have actually beat him.
@ Whimsical –
“Its a paraphrase. It’s not exactly what they said, but reality shows its what most “progressives” (not actual progressives) believe.”
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1) You need to understand the meaning of “paraphrase.”
2) You need to explain what you mean with “… most ‘progressives’ (not actual progressives)….” [This is George Orwell’s “double-speak” exemplified.]
For once–and maybe just this once–Whimsical is actually correct. Several commenters on this blog alone have stated that Trump being elected was preferable to Hillary because Trump would make people more Progressive while Hillary would make Progressives slack off and the Democrat Party think it didn’t need to change. So…yeah he’s right. Electing Republicans is *exactly* what Progressives want.
—>It’s a shame to see you’ve bought into the “progressive” nonsense, Alex. While you’ve always had a ridiculously generous notion about what can actually be accomplished in the eyeblink between elections I never considered you to have the paucity of spirit necessary to buy into the notion that if you can just make your fellow Americans suffer enough, they will suddenly buy into an unnecessary and frankly counterproductive “revolution”.“[…]by rewarding Democrats for getting done what ACTUALLY could get done instead of holding them to some ridiculous standard no one could meet.”<—
Let's look at that. In less than a month, Donald Trump has got people convinced that 23 million illegals are about to be rounded up and shipped off to wherever the hell they're going to end up. That would qualify as one of the greatest migrations in human history. And Trump got. it. done. (or at least got. it. going.) in under a month.
So let's put aside that things can't happen quickly. There are numerous other examples throughout history of people getting things moving in remarkably short timeframes.
Here's how I see it. The Progressive says, "I want to be paid $30 an hour."
The Republican says, "I want to pay you $10 an hour."
The Democrat says, "How about we compromise and you take $20 an hour."
Sounds reasonable.
Except that when the Progressive said $30, the Progressive was already being fair. The $30 is what is needed for a moderate level of living with enough left over to invest for retirement and actually squeeze a little joy out of the world.
What the Democrat wants is for me to work harder and harder because I "don't understand about compromise."
No. I don't understand about compromise. I am no longer interested in being screwed out of what I need to survive because the other guy has to have even more than he already has. However, until everyone else comprehends this, I cannot escape the trap. All the incrementalism in the world won't save me, AND it has the additional negation of duping others into thinking everything will be better by-and-by.
And had HRC won the election, we would be staring at eight long years of smug, unctuous lectures from the six-figure club explaining to me that I really don't deserve single-payer because I'm wishing for pie in the sky. What the hell SHOULD I wish for? "Oh, I hope the rich get richer and I get a couple of pennies?"
You want to live on your knees? Go right ahead. But don't try to convince me I'll like the view if I try it myself.
Alex-
I doubt you’ll see this, but what the hell.
“Let’s look at that. In less than a month, Donald Trump has got people convinced that 23 million illegals are about to be rounded up and shipped off to wherever the hell they’re going to end up.”
Moving the goalposts, much? If we can’t agree that convincing people that something is going to get done is not the same thing as something getting done, actual dialog becomes substantially more difficult.
“So let’s put aside that things can’t happen quickly. There are numerous other examples throughout history of people getting things moving in remarkably short timeframes”
Let’s not put that aside. Because if you factor out examples from countries that don’t have comparable political systems to the U.S. and/or resulted from revolution (doomed to fail in the U.S, and the right is just salivating for you to try. That will be the end result of your actions. I’ll do you the courtesy of assuming its not your goal) there really are not all that many examples. In fact, there are few enough that I’d say its the exception far more often than the rule.
” That would qualify as one of the greatest migrations in human history. And Trump got. it. done. (or at least got. it. going.) in under a month”
First, lets look at what Trump actually did: He deported a handful of low lying fruit (far less than 1% of 23 million) and is withering in the glare of the negative publicity. He’s never going to be able to deport 23 million people. I know that. You know that (or at least you should). Hell, anyone who isn’t a political poser or a downright moron knows that.
Second, if you credit Trump for getting Deportations going, then I credit Obama for getting single payer going. He put us on a path that would’ve invariably led to single payer had “progressives” not helped the right wing poison the well and led to a loss that reset the generational clock on single-payer to zero.
“No. I don’t understand about compromise. I am no longer interested in being screwed out of what I need to survive because the other guy has to have even more than he already has”
Its not about you. It never was. It’s about the future.
My great-grandfather, my grandfather, and my father all fought for things that they knew they might not see the benefits of. Because it was the right thing to do.
Todays “progressives”? “If it doesn’t benefit me right now, eh, fuck it.” It’s my biggest complaint with them.
I don’t know how old you are, but if you start now with the understanding that its going to take 20 years to get to single payer and stop resetting the clock to 0, there’s a good chance you’ll be alive to see it implemented. But even if you aren’t you should do it anyway- because its the right thing to do.
“You want to live on your knees? Go right ahead. But don’t try to convince me I’ll like the view if I try it myself.”
That’s the thing Alex. You’re already on your knees. Worse, you’re on your knees wrapped in chains, and eagerly pulling more chains on yourself, all the while claiming to be fighting them. And on the other end of those chains? Every goal you claim to care about, receding further and further into the future as you wrap those chains around yourself attempt to wrap them around the country.
You want to live that way? I certainly can’t stop you. But don’t try and tell me that all you need is enough people to join you in chains to achieve the goals you claim to care about. All that’s ever going to do is push the achievement of those goals further off into the future.
“Worse, you’re on your knees wrapped in chains, and eagerly pulling more chains on yourself, all the while claiming to be fighting them”
WHAhahahahhaahaha. Funniest. Post. Ever.
Yes, we’re all wrapped up in those chains, and you keep trying to convince us that the only way to fight them is to vote for DINOs (i.e. “pull more chains on yourself while claiming to be fighting them”‘)
BTW – the second funniest part is how you don’t seem to understand the difference between convincing 23 million people, and deporting them.
Unfortunately, while what has happened the past few decades may not have been what Democrat *voters* wanted, it has been exactly what Democrat leaders wanted. Or, they would not have helped it happen. QED.
+1
«Deal with the robberbarrons who use illegal labor.» Let me modify that for you, Alex : «Deal with the robber barons who use labor illegally», It is not those who sell their labour power who should be considered illegal, but rather those who take advantage of their precarious circumstances to underpay them and make them work in unsafe conditions. As long as these latter – the real criminals – go scot-free, the situation for workers in the United States will continue to worsen….
Henri
Either way, the sticky point is those robber barons, and pissing them off just isn’t on the table. That’s why the real problem has never addressed in the first place.
I read elsewhere that Hair Furor Trumpkopf wants to advertise crimes committed by illegals. As in Bush the Lesser’s case, he took a solemn oath to protect a document he never bothered read.
“As in Bush the Lesser’s case, he took a solemn oath to protect a document he never bothered read.”
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Funny you should say that.
I seem to recall reading somewhere that he yelled at his aides: “Stop talking to me about the Constitution! It’s just a god-damned piece of paper!”
Or did I just imagine that?
Yeah, I remember that – maybe one of his aides read it?
If Shrub had graduated grade school, he would have known that it was written on parchment rather than paper.
Ignorance of how the country is supposed to work is inexcusable in Joe Sixpack. In the case of duh prez, it should be grounds for dismissal.
What significance does the oath have with that kind of attitude? That SoB was the most unqualified person in the United States to occupy the Oval Office — until now. 😀
@CrazyH- “Ignorance of how the country is supposed to work is inexcusable in Joe Sixpack.”
The irony in that statement coming from the mouth of a “progressive” is palpable. I’d explain it to you, but based on past experience you’d just pretend not to understand and fail at countering a point I never made, so why waste my time?
Good question, Whimsy – why do you waste everyone’s time on your nonsense?
@CH-
To watch you prove me right every time you open your mouth. Today being no exception.
So … pointing out the logical fallacies in your position (as below) proves you right? Well, I guess that must make sense in the bizzarro world you occupy.
But here on Earth, it doesn’t just work that way. If you want to move left, you have to vote left. If you vote right, you’re moving right. Is that really such a difficult concept?
@ CrazyH –
Dammit! You beat me to the punch!
oops, sorry. Tell ya’ what, we can share. You punch high, and I’ll kick low…
“Born in East LA” by Cheech Marin. Not a comedy anymore.
Plane Wreck at Los Gatos by Woody Guthrie.
Obama gave great speeches but, as Trump pointed out in a debate, he was deporter in chief. His actions never matched his words. With Trump, we get someone who brags and tweets about all the stuff Obama said was wrong and the US must not do (but then he did it anyway).
«Donald Trump’s sweeping new plan to deport 11 million illegal immigrants includes a provision that also targets 12.6 million green card holders whom the authorities even suspect of even the most trivial offense.» This could get interesting – of the four 2016 Nobel laureates in the physical sciences working at US universities, four (100 %) are foreign citizens. Presumably they all hold green cards granting them permanent resident status in the United States. They demonstrably are scientists, which seems to be an offense under the Trump administration – I’m not certain whether such activity is to be classified as a misdemeanor or a felony – and thus could be subject to deportation…..
I wonder if this is sort of thing that Stephen Kevin Bannon means by the «deconstruction of the administrative state» ?…
Henri
I would approve. Getting all Nobel Laureates out of the US is a great idea!
But the ‘so-called judge’ said Trump cannot cancel a valid visa without due process. That judge could never have said that when Obama was president, since it would have been racist. He could never have said that when Bush, jr was president since Muslims from Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, and North Korea were attacking the US and the president could not have his hands tied by some 18th century obsolete idiocy called ‘due process’.
So it looks like those Nobel Laureates will continue to do science for the US of A.