In many Internet discussions, someone who makes an assertion is often countered by someone who demand that they present a link proving the veracity of their assertion. When such proof is provided, however, there is almost never any acknowledgment that the original poster was correct.
So, Finally We Meet
Ted Rall
Ted Rall is a syndicated political cartoonist for Andrews McMeel Syndication and WhoWhatWhy.org and Counterpoint. He is a contributor to Centerclip and co-host of "The TMI Show" talk show. He is a graphic novelist and author of many books of art and prose, and an occasional war correspondent. He is, recently, the author of the graphic novel "2024: Revisited."
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All your URL retorts were in Cyrillic.
Ted,
We’ve all been there. It’s hard to be sure, but I think that for most of these people, it’s simply fear and anger. It’s a scary world for Kayla’s Mama 1977 what with all the mercury-filled vaccines that no longer have any mercury and never did. And for her to admit that she was wrong from the start? She, genuinely, doesn’t understand how to form an argument. Not in her own head, not on a piece of paper, not via her keyboard. And rather than accept that she needs (a lot of) help intellectually and psychologically, she simply screws with people because that’s a way to not admit to herself that she has a lot of very serious problems to overcome.
In the theme of the current comic, I include a reference (sorry not a URL) that you haven’t demanded but which does “begin” to address your statement, above, regarding “the mercury-filled vaccines that no longer have any mercury and never did.”
A section pertinent to our previous discussion on this matter can be found in:
Chapter 4: Comparable Dangers of Ethylmercury and Methylmercury
Title: Thimerosal: Let the Science Speak: The Evidence Supporting the Immediate Removal of Mercury a Known Neurotoxin from Vaccines
Author(s): Jr. Robert F. Kennedy
Publisher: Skyhorse Publishing 2015
ISBN: 9781634504423; 1634504429; 9781634504430; 1634504437
Now, see, you’re bringing this up in a rational fashion. And rational arguments can be presented, be examined, and be evaluated.
For instance: RFK Jr. is not impartial. Skyhorse Publishing is not a scientific or academic publisher. (See “The Double Helix” by Watson and “Outrage” by Naomi Wolf — in fact, see Naomi Wolf’s entire output.)
For instance: Ethyl and methylmercury are two different forms of mercury, so the whole “toxic” argument is not only subjective but also a red herring. Oxygen is also “toxic” in some situations (pure oxygen will, after a period, cause oxygen toxicity to biological systems). WIthout it, you die. Water has oxygen. Without water, you die. Too much water? You will also die, either by drowning or by loss of electrolytes. Ozone is simply molecular oxygen with three atoms of oxygen instead of the two in regular air. If you breath ozone in too high of a concentration, you die.
As for mercury. The amount of mercury in a can of tuna is roughly the same as the amount of mercury that USED to be in a vaccine. HOWEVER, the molecular form of mercury that USED TO BE in a vaccine was ethylmercury, which the body eliminates in two weeks. The mercury in tuna is methylmercury, which takes about six months to be excreted from the body.
I note that STILL, even after all the scare tactics, there is no “BAN TUNA” movement. I don’t think there’s a school in the country that doesn’t serve tuna. But it’s filled to bursting with mercury. Where’s the “tuna outrage”?
The vaccine “debate” arose, in part, as a way for parents to find a coping mechanism for why their children were having development disorders. Correlation is not causation. If autism developed external symptoms at the age of six, people would argue that going to kindergarten caused autism. If it happened at 65? Well, clearly, retirement causes autism. Wait. It doesn’t? I’m using faulty reasoning? But it’s the same reasoning as the autism “skeptics.”
Further, if vaccines caused autism, we would see similar rates of autism across all vaccinated groups. We do not. Rich white children have the lowest autism rate. Oddly, non-Hispanic whites have the highest immunization rates. Mercury is no longer present in any vaccines, but autism rates continue to rise. HOW?
Well, your response didn’t disappoint. I just loved the “But it’s (tuna) filled to bursting with mercury” flourish!!!
I note first that in your response you show that, I guess, you really didn’t mean to say in your original comment, paraphrased, “vaccines never did contain mercury”?
My point here, as in our previous discussion, is not the autism question, per se, but that NO mercury in any form should ever have been present in any medical product. The deleterious effects of mercury in the human body are many and have been known for quite some time. Note the book title refers to mercury/thimerosol as a neurotoxin, a general term.
Kennedy is not a research scientist and his publisher is not a scientific journal, so what? This does not prevent him from finding, reading, understanding, discussing and referencing (and Skyhorse from publishing) hundreds of pertinent original, peer reviewed articles.
Given the excretion rate you quote for ethylmercury, do you really think, nothing in a biochemical sense could happen while it
is in circulation for 2 weeks? I wouldn’t be convinced unless and until all the points and references of Chapter 4 were convincingly refuted. Kennedy points out that the “favorable” (i.e.faster) elimination rate studies don’t necessarily consider rapid storage of the ethlymercury in tissues with reported absence only in easily, non-invasively, obtained bodily fluids.
Do you have any reference(s) that demonstrate the presence in the target micro-organisms of thimerosol of some unique pathway responsible for their sensitivity … not even an analogue of which (if not exact duplicate) is present in humans?
First, let me get the easier point out of the way: your assertion that mercury is toxic and shouldn’t be in the human body. Absolutely. That’s established science. It’s also gratuitous. The point isn’t even a point. It’s like arguing about whether jumping into a working wood chipper would sting a little or a lot. When you come out the other end as hamburger, quality and quantity of sting perception is irrelevant. And although mercury is toxic, as a trade off — a very small quantity of mercury for a much larger benefit (immunity to a raft of childhood diseases) is, odds-wise, the better bet.
Second, the crux of the discussion is bad science and how it is used to manipulate the public and, for the purposes of this forum, how the people with the woo-woo never admit they’re wrong. The anti-vaxxers assert that mercury causes autism. They hand-wave off the obvious answer: autism symptoms emerge around the same time as vaccinations occur, but the two items are separate. They are certain: mercury=autism.
And along the way comes a lot of collateral woo-woo. (I’m getting hold of a copy of RFK Jr.’s book. It’s 500 pages. I will address his points, but it could take a couple of weeks.) And the woo-woo stacks. The amount of mercury in a vaccine is trivial? Yes. It is. We live in a world filled with mercury sources. All our bodies have amounts that can be detected. A can of tuna equals a vaccine, except that the tuna contains a more-toxic form of mercury that takes longer to exit the body. So, activate woo-woo: all forms of mercury are equally dangerous and, um, yeah, the mercury can “hide” in the body. And, uh, vaccines make you magnetic!
Autism rates are still going up. Even though the tiny amount of mercury that was present in vaccines is no longer in those vaccines — and hasn’t been for almost 25 years — autism is soaring.
For YEARS, nay, DECADES, the anti-vaxxers shrieked themselves hoarse about how vaccines cause autism.
But now, with NO mercury in the vaccines, autism rates are still rising? Even after 20 years? Impossible. And mercury levels in the environment have all either stayed the same in the past 50 years or decreased. So where’s the replacement mercury coming from if there’s less mercury in the environment now than in the past. The rates in autism ought to be dropping too, so the vaccines are bad because of mercury and stuff and things and conspiracies argument fails.
And that leads to the biggest question of all: The anti-vaxxers had it wrong. Not a little. Completely. But they were CERTAIN they had it right. I see no admission of error, no contrition, no learning. A kid died recently in Texas because of the woo-woo the anti-vaxxer crowd spread and never recanted. Why should they be listened to at all? In science, you admit you’re wrong, actively and publicly if needed by disavowing and renouncing previously held thinking that was incorrect, but, at a minimum, by not continuing to espouse disproven theories. But here we are, with the anti-vaxxers still calling most of the shots.
There are things that medical science and doctors say that I’m not so sure of. Is it better to wait and see or is a “do something” intervention called for? These are real questions that need further exploration and more statistical evidence.
But vaccines; they are a no-brainer. Sure we can and should change them to make them even better when we have the opportunity, but the statistics are in and … vaccines save lives. Not just a handful of lives, or a few hundred, or a few thousand, or a few million, but hundreds of millions. Vaccines reduce the chance of you getting the disease, but that also means that they reduce the chance of you giving it to your loved ones, to the immune-compromised in your community, and to the wider world. When your doctor recommends a vaccine, go get it!
To me, the question of why autism rates are increasing is vital, and needs to be researched. The vaccine questions that concern me are are whether our corporate-captured “regulatory system” is really protecting us, or just rubber-stamping big pharma’s requests to launch money-printing devices, aka unnecessary vaccinations. Covid was a notorious profit-maker for them, but the same is true of other vaccines, as well.
https://corporatewatch.org/five-ways-big-pharma-makes-so-much-money/
Meanwhile, the US requires more vaccinations than most other countries
https://vaccineknowledge.ox.ac.uk/vaccination-schedules-other-countries
…but has worse health outcomes.
https://healthjournalism.org/blog/2024/09/report-u-s-spends-the-most-on-health-but-outcomes-are-among-the-worst/
To me, these are some of the realities that need to be addressed in overhauling our country’s health system.
Please note that none of these links are in Cyrillic. Also, I spent at least twenty minutes looking them up, so don’t ghost me! 🙂 (Actually, I don’t care if anybody responds or not–just trying to bring it back to the subject of Ted’s toon!. )
Sure, those who created the COVID-19 vaccines made buttloads of money. Whether that is (or should be) out of line by the standards of the USA is a valid question and investigation is useful.
However it is also true that the COVID-19 vaccines saved lives. As in, not a handful but millions of lives worldwide. It could have been millions more lives saved if it were not for vaccine hesitancy.
So, yes, conduct your investigations or urge our governments to do so, get to the bottom of things, and make things better. But don’t lose sight of the forest for the trees. Get your vaccinations.