Live 9 AM Eastern, Then Streaming On Demand
In this pulse-pounding episode of Deprogrammed, hosted by political cartoonist Ted Rall and whistleblower John Kiriakou, CNN anchor Jake Tapper joins for a riveting interview unpacking his new book, Race Against Terror: Chasing an Al Qaeda Killer at the Dawn of the Forever War, released on October 7, 2025.
The conversation thrusts listeners into the heart of a real-life thriller: the unprecedented international pursuit and federal trial of Spin Ghul (real name: Ibrahim Harun), a high-ranking Al Qaeda operative who boasted of killing U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan before bizarrely surrendering to Italian authorities amid the 2011 Arab Spring chaos. Tapper, drawing from exhaustive reporting—including interviews with prosecutors, intelligence operatives, and even Ghul’s defense team—details the book’s explosive core: a high-stakes “police procedural” spanning refugee boats in the Mediterranean, Afghan battlefields, Brooklyn courtrooms, and Oval Office briefings.
Ghul, a dark-skinned Pashtun fighter derisively nicknamed “White Rose” by his Arab Al Qaeda comrades amid the group’s internal racism, emerges as a bumbling yet deadly jihadist. Radicalized in the post-9/11 “Forever War” era, he ambushed U.S. convoys, racking up American casualties, only to flee Libya’s uprising and demand extradition while flashing bullet-scarred proof of his exploits.
The narrative races through the frantic efforts of two relentless Assistant U.S. Attorneys in Brooklyn—racing against deportation deadlines and legal precedents—to secure the first-ever conviction of a foreign terrorist for battlefield murders in a civilian court, blurring lines between warfare, criminal justice, and counterterrorism. Kiriakou, with his CIA whistleblower lens, intensely questions Tapper on the blurred ethics of renditions, interrogations, and intel-sharing that snared Ghul, drawing eerie parallels to his own post-9/11 exposure of waterboarding horrors and warning of how such hunts eroded civil liberties. A masterclass in true-crime geopolitics laced with unfiltered edge, this Deprogram episode is unmissable for fans of high-stakes history. Stream on major platforms, and dive into Race Against Terror for the full, meticulously sourced saga of pursuit, prejudice, and precarious justice.
