Democrats want to impeach Trump for pressuring Ukraine over Biden. But Biden pressured Ukraine too.
Impeachment: the Moral High Ground Isn’t as High as It Used to Be
Democrats want to impeach Trump for pressuring Ukraine over Biden. But Biden pressured Ukraine too.
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Disregarding the arm+leg-long list of legitimate issues for “inquiry” the Dems seem determined to stick to the single “our proud & public, high-level, international extortion of Ukraine don’t stink” angle.
If they actually do limit “the inquiry,” we can only conclude that Pelosi has realized that ol’ Joe should be shamed out of the 2020 race before he REALLY embarrasses himself and his party later … when its too late.
If that’s not Pelosi’s gambit or Joe somehow survives, I am looking forward to his inevitable meltdown … perhaps he’ll soil himself at the climax of his nomination acceptance speech?
As to His Hairness, one wonders why he would do ANYTHING to possibly harm the candidacy of bumblin’ (even if as vicious as all the rest) Biden.
“As to His Hairness, one wonders why he would do ANYTHING to possibly harm the candidacy of bumblin’ (even if as vicious as all the rest) Biden.”
Trump was Hillary’s favored Republican candidate (her “Pied Piper Candidate”) one who could win his party primary and lose the general election.
Trump will likely use the same strategy but, I think, with a greater chance of success.
People speak of Trump Derangement Syndrome. How everything he does, big or small triggers histrionics. Is there a term yet for the sense of confusion I have when I read Ted’s stuff? “Yeah, Biden seems to have ‘fluenced a foreign power but no one else mentions it. Have Ted and I both lost our minds in the same way or is Biden’s behavior questionable too?”
“is Biden’s behavior questionable too?””
The word you’re looking for is “irrelevant.” Biden’s behavior may well be questionable, but he is neither president nor committing High Crimes and Misdemeanors.
Alex – was your original comment above moderated? I ask ‘cuz I’ve got one awaiting moderation, yet my reply to yours went through immediately.
Biden was vice president when he too extorted the Ukranian government for personal gain (for 4x as many $’s as HH).
@falco – documentation? (And did he ask a foreign government to help him with an election?)
Even if so, it’s still irrelevant to Trump’s actions.
(my earlier comment is relevant to this discussion, but still awaiting moderation %^P)
1. No. It wasn’t moderated.
2. See, I think Biden’s behavior is relevant. Especially when the video of him bragging and laughing about it is reviewed. Perhaps that’s the confusion on my part. I watched the msm practically have actual kittens about whether Trump drew on a map with a Sharpie. And when I pointed out that a lot of much more serious stuff was going on, I was actually told, “Don’t you understand, he broke the law by doing this?!” I got lectured about how I have to understand that although no one died because of Trump’s doodling … NEXT TIME IT COULD BE THE END OF THE WORLD.
And keep in mind, I am not a Trump supporter.
How are Biden’s actions relevant?
They neither serve to prove nor disprove Trump’s guilt. They may be relevant if Trump & Biden had colluded with each other, but I sincerely doubt that.
If I violate the speed limit, and you violate the speed limit, we are both guilty of speeding. But my actions have nothing whatsoever to do with yours: they are completely unrelated : irrlelevant.
In this case, Biden may be guilty of speeding – but Trump is guilty of doing 100 MPH over the speed limit the wrong way up a one-way alley in a stolen car containing six kilos of uncut heroin. Not the same thing at all.
To CH:
How are Biden’s actions relevant in regards extorting a foreign government to help him win an election?
Show me that Biden, AS VICE PRESIDENT, had no thought of ever running for the big prize. Biden’s extortion is separated in time from THIS campaign for the 2020 election but I’ll give him credit at least for realizing in 2014 that blatant nepotism … after an illegal regime change … might just reflect poorly on what was likely his 2016 plans that were superceded by the HRC imperative.
Another slight bit of relevance is noted in my own comment awaiting moderation: if the Dems, as they claim, intend to deal ONLY with the Ukraine phone call of His Hairness in their inquiry (and, of course, actually impeach) the GOP will make sure the “relevance of Biden’s actions” are made abundantly clear.
Documentation: 1May 2019 New York Times.
I’m anxiously awaiting your DNC choreographed tap-dance.
To CH
PS
Of course, Biden WAS running in 2016 but cut his campaign short due to the death of his
other son.
QED: EXACTLY the same … extortion of another government for its assistance in meddling with a US presidential election.
To CH
PS
Of course, Biden WAS running in 2016 but cut his campaign short due to the death of his other son.
QED: EXACTLY the same … extortion of a foreign government for its assistance in meddling with a US presidential election.
To CH
PS
Of course, Biden WAS running in 2016 but cut his campaign short due to the death of his other son.
QED: EXACTLY the same … extortion of another government for its assistance in meddling with a US presidential election.
‘cuz “looking out for the national interest” is exactly the same thing as “looking out for Trump’s own, personal interests”?
Textbook case of ‘false equivalence.’ Our aid programs have always been political, “do it our way, and we’ll give you money,” sometimes they even attempt to Do Good as when we pressure other countries support human rights. Nothing new there, nor is it a blatant violation of constitutional principles or campaign finance laws.
DISCLAIMER: Nowhere did I say that political pressure is always a good thing, or that our motives are always pure, or that our own record on human rights doesn’t suck.
Can’t wait for Ted to start posting about how the whole Ukraine telephone call thing is all a ginormous hoax perpetrated by the DNC ‘cuz they’re very sad Hillary lost.
Testing, testing … is a reply to my own post moderated?
The Ukraine was about evenly divided between a Russian-Orthodox, Russian speaking eastern group and a Russian-hating western group. In ’14, the US sent money and weapons to enable the Russian-hating group to overthrow the elected pro-Russian government. Biden played a big role in this overthrow, both Republicans and Democrats recognised it as good work, and both agreed the labourer was worthy of his hire, and the Bidens were very well paid for work well done.
The mainstream media censor the video of Biden bragging about getting the pro-Russian (so a foriori corrupt) prosecutor fired, and say there is absolutely no evidence of any kind that Biden did anything wrong, Trump is making the whole thing up out of whole cloth.
Disregarding the arm+leg-long list of legitimate issues for “inquiry” the Dems seem determined to stick to the single angle: “OUR proud & public, high-level, international extortion of Ukraine don’t stink.”
If they actually do limit “the inquiry,” we can only conclude that Pelosi has realized that ol’ Joe should be shamed out of the 2020 race before he REALLY embarrasses himself and his party later … when its too late.
If that’s not Pelosi’s gambit or Joe somehow survives, I am looking forward to his inevitable meltdown … perhaps he’ll soil himself at the climax of his nomination acceptance speech?
As to His Hairness, one wonders why he would do ANYTHING to possibly harm the candidacy of bumblin’ (even if as vicious as all the rest) Biden.
Why Biden’s actions are relevant.
Forget Biden’s intentions for the next political cycle. BIden’s son keeps getting jobs that he is not qualified to hold. And these are always extremely high-paying jobs.
Hillary War Criminal Clinton’s daughter, Chelsea, got a gig as MSNBC for which she was paid $600,000 to write feel-good stories. And I am sick to death of listening to the mind-blind who will not or cannot admit that it was a flat-out bribe to get access to Hillary Clinton.
Joe Biden’s son getting a sweetheart sinecure overseas is also a bribe. And I’m sorry, but I am no longer interested in listening to the equivalent of the Intelligent Design crowd asking for proof of an intermediate form, and when one is shown, demanding the next layer down, and the next one after that, and so forth until five layers down, the biologist says, “We don’t have that one. Yet.” “Aha! Your whole theory is bunk.”
Even if someone is no longer a president or veep or whatever, they still have a deep, deep Rolodex. You think that a letter of recommendation from, say, Barack Obama wouldn’t get me into Harvard? THEY’D BE SCARED SHITLESS TO NOT GIVE ME A FULL RIDE. You think a letter from Veep Dubya wouldn’t get me into Groff Community College? A letter from Bill Clinton would get anyone he wrote it for into pretty much any damned law school. And then there’s the techie and hedge fund billionaires. If Mark Zuckerburg wrote “Alex the Tired” is a great guy on a cocktail napkin in his own shit, MIT would find me and carry me to Cambridge on their white pasty backs.
The world runs on influence. BIden’s son knows how to get paid. And Biden let’s it happen. And that is relevant.
Alex – we seem to be discussing semantics rather than politics.
For sake of argument, let’s stipulate that “relevant” is equivalent to “somebody else did a similar bad thing.”
Okay, Biden did a similar bad thing. Probably. You are talking circumstantial evidence verses words out of the horse’s own [mouth,] But let’s accept that for sake of argument as well.
Trying to get a foreign power to undermine what little democracy we have left is a whole lot worse that a little political nepotism. Moreover, it’s long been the policy of this site and the interlocutors thereupon that there is absolutely nothing wrong with political nepotism. Nor is there anything wrong with colluding with a foreign power to undermine that democracy. And evidently there is nothing wrong with extorting a foreign power to undermine that democracy either.
I think that’s ‘relevant’ as per the definition above, as is the fact that Trump is POTUS while Biden is not.
The clarification helps. My objection is specifically about how the dem leaders avoid discussing the Biden issue, i.e., taking it out of the realm of hearsay. And that’s how “a little” nepotism grows. It’s like cigarettes. You start off taking a puff. Then you start smoking regularly. Then you’re on oxygen while the PR wonks insist that e-cigs are much safer than smoking.
… and in that, my friend, we are in agreement.