The New York Times says that Obama and Pope Francis I, currently visiting the United States, have more in common than not. But those differences? Oh, what differences.
So Much in Common
Ted Rall
Ted Rall is a syndicated political cartoonist for Andrews McMeel Syndication, WhoWhatWhy.org and Counterpoint. He is a frequent contributor to The Wall Street Journal, a graphic novelist and author of many books of art and prose, and an occasional war correspondent. He is, recently, the author of the graphic novel "The Stringer."
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Will the pope contract to employ drones to eliminate the pedophiles in his ranks OR to eliminate their trouble-making victims?
It could be the “signature” decision of his tenure.
The Pope could ORDER all priests, cardinals, bishops, archbishops, nuns, etc. to make themselves fully available to any secular authority that has questions, and order those people to fully disclose any knowledge they have of any cases of actual or suspected pedophilia. He can ORDER them to testify. He can ORDER them not to run away or transfer out of the district. If the prior pope had done that with Bernard Law, the pedophilia scandal would have been resolved by now.
To Alex:
I know what the pope COULD do. But my comment addresses the the fact that unless and until he DOES something significant about his pedophiles, he may as well be considered one of their enablers/protectors/co-conspiratorsand.
He must seek prosecution against them, within the legal system governing their victims, not that of the church, or else his church must be considered a complete, total and vicious fraud.
THE similarity between the church and the US (as opposed to just their current leaders) is the monumental difference between what they SAY they are as opposed to the reality of what they actually DO, or fail to do.
I was raised Catholic, so I know quite well that under-achieving institution’s well-manicured propaganda of self-importance … exceptionalism, “if you will.”
Absolutely. Until Francis stops talking in flowery metaphors and starts handing over every scrap of paper to secular authorities–and the turning over the perverts for long prison sentences in secular jails, not “detached assignments” in papal villas–he’s still just one more bullshit artist talking a good game.
I must confess that I felt that alex_the_tired was being a tad hard on Franciscus, but after reading this article, – http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/sep/30/pope-francis-criticises-romes-mayor-as-a-pretend-catholic – I’m no longer so sure. On the other hand, it’s pretty difficult not to be an improvement with predecessors like Papa Wojtyla och Papa Ratzinger…. 😉
Henri
“They have more in common.” What a moronic cliche for the New York Times to run with. It’s so vague as to be meaningless. They BOTH breathe air. They BOTH require food and water. They’re BOTH multimillionaires who don’t have to spend a moment’s worry about healthcare availability. Both have household staffs, etc.
The question no one touches (except Ted) is the one about their treatment of people. And even that is open to dissection. Yes, Pope Francis has a socialist bent, but it’s the easy liberalism. Consider this. With a single papal bull, he could effect more change than any congressional body. Has he? About as much as Obama has gotten people out of Gitmo. I know, I know, just like that 20 lbs. I’ve been trying to lose for the last decade, he’s working on it.
… they both got elected to head up an organization with a long history of human rights abuses …
At least the Pope’s trying to clean up his.
CrazyH,
Try surprising me for ONCE. You are living proof that for some Leftists, no history and no definitions are beyond the grasp of your perverse distortions and lies.
@henri – rats.
I believe you, definitely sounds more like Stalin. Although Marx often suggested ‘revolution’ he tended to be a little vague on exactly what that would entail.
Nevertheless, it’s quite obvious that he didn’t have any more respect for the rich than did Yeshua. I was searching for something short enough for Mr. Ass to comprehend – it’s not like he’s ever going to read Das Kapital. Feel free to supply a substitute.
To Alex:
What would you have the pope say in the papal bull that would be significantly different, important and change-making from, for example, his recent encyclical, “Laudato si”?
From the wiki article of the same name: “The encyclical has the subtitle ‘On care for our common home.[1]’
In it, the pope critiques consumerism and irresponsible development, laments environmental degradation and global warming, and calls all people of the world to take ‘swift and unified global action’ … ”
(Article @ tinyurl.com/ojtos58
First reference is the text of the encyclical.)
The pope & the current US president may have similarities but the major difference is that the pope has a legitimate excuse for there not occurring that which he SAYS he wants to see.
The pope has the power to excommunicate. The pope has the power of the “ex cathedra” statement. The EC statement is made when the pope is speaking infallibly. That means the statement CANNOT be challenged as a doctrine in the church.
The pope could say that it is now part of the Roman Catholic faith that homosexuality be given equal footing to heterosexuality and that it is doctrine that gay marriage is as valid as straight marriage.
The Pope, again, speaking infallibly, could ORDER the church to either liquidate ALL of its real estate holdings OR convert ALL of it to at-cost housing.
The Pope could do a LOT more than the lip service he does now. The Pope has more power than most people realize. He’s sitting in control of billions in untaxable real estate and art wealth. He has an international framework to utilize. Imagine what happens if the Pope declares Election Day a obligation of the faith? Doesn’t tell anyone who to vote for, just that all good Catholics have to vote or else they’ve committed a sin.
I still sat the Pope is all hat, no cattle.
The pope’s talking like a stone cold communist and that’s not enough? Look, I found him amusing for a while since I’m an atheist myself. He even claimed I could get into heaven. But I wouldn’t be surprised at all however, to find that he is far more popular with non-Catholics. After all, he is already in direct contradiction with scripture and yet you want him to do more. Any devout Catholic should already see and admit that he is not legitimate. Many already do. Yeah, the pope is “infallible,” but Catholics are well aware institutions can be infiltrated.
Fascinating, «Jack Heart», to see that you are almost (?) as great an expert on exegesis as you are on economics and politics. I can’t wait to see your comments on quantum mechanics, mathematical philosophy, and the Chinese language…. 😉
Henri
Of course the Pope sounds like a communist – Jesus was a communist.
Henry, try making an argument for once instead of vomiting snark. You aren’t nearly as clever as you think. If the pope doesn’t follow the Bible it’s a pretty clear he has no spiritual authority, but straight-forward logic like that isn’t your strong suit. Best stick to amusing yourself with more lame jokes.
Really, CH, you’ll try to co-opt anything–even as you attack it from the other side of your mouth.
Jesus advocated charity–not theft.
Poor «Jack Heart» – aside from her/his orthographical inadequcies, s/he fails to understand what «making an argument» involves. The fact that s/he claims that the current Pope «is already in direct contradiction with scripture» – without, nota bene, presenting the slightest evidence at all to that effect is not an acceptable way to «make an argument», and for the second element in a conditional proposition – «it’s a [sic !] pretty clear he has no spiritual authority» – to have a chance of following from the first «If the pope doesn’t follow the Bible» – then it has to be established that the first element is true, which our pathetic «Jack Heart» doesn’t even attempt to do. And this is the wo/man who presumes to teach elementary Aristotelian logic till others ! Quelle farce !… 😉
Henri
Ha – I knew that’d get a rise out of you Jack.
Here’s the problem – I’ve read both Marx and the bible. You’ve read neither. You simply believe what other people tell you. In both cases, they are people with agendas.
Jesus was all about sharing – but so was Marx. If you care to argue that point, please use Jesus’ and Marx’s own words.
e.g.:
Marx, “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need”
Luke 3:11 “11 He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.”
OMG! Yeshua bin Nazareth was a THIEF! He would steal a man’s food out of his mouth, and the coat off his back!
Marx, “The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope”
Mathew 19:24 “And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.”
Marx would deny the rich corporeal life; Yeshua would deny them eternal life. Yep, Yeshua was a commie all right.
One more Marx quote which seems especially relevant to this discussion, “Ignorance never yet helped anybody.”
CrazyH, you might want to consider researching that purported quote from Karl Heinrich Marx to the effect that «The last capitalist we hang shall be the one who sold us the rope». While I certainly haven’t read everything in Herr Marx’s voluminous production, I’ve read a fair amount, and the above sounds rather un-Marxist to me. The following is what the English-language version of Wikiquotes has to say about the matter :
«Often attributed to Lenin or Stalin, less often to Marx. According to the book, “They Never Said It”, p. 64, the phrase derives from a rumour that Lenin said this to one of his close associates, Grigori Zinoviev, not long after a meeting of the Politburo in the early 1920s, but there is no evidence that he ever did. Experts on the Soviet Union reject the rope quote as spurious.»
Henri
Henri,
I most emphatically apologize for my typo and also for so blindly assuming that the “intellectuals” here would know that the Bible says you need to have faith to enter heaven and that homosexuals are immoral–two very obvious things that the Pope contradicted. As such a student of logic as yourself will know, every argument has unstated premises and assumptions of course.
CrazyH,
Please show me where Jesus said the gov’t should redistribute wealth and the means of production by force. Admonishing one to be charitable does not equal forcing him to give up his possessions. Oh, and in fact, ignorance of economics helped Marx gain a vast following to this very day!
: Kindergarten Teacher Voice :
uhhh, Jackie? Real economists study Marx because of his theories. He is generally credited with helping to advance the science, yes, even by mainstream capitalists.
I already showed you two quotes straight from the bible, but of course, since you have no idea what communism actually is, you have no way of recognizing what they are saying. (Covering up your ears and shouting “Is Not! Is Not!” doesn’t count)
Your ignorance of the subject could fill a book. In fact, several books. You should try reading one.
: kindergarten teacher, continued :
Both the American Revolution and the French Revolution redistributed wealth by force. They took political power away from the aristocracy and gave it to the people.
Can I assume you believe those were bad ideas as well?
Your apology – obviously as sincere as everything else you post to this forum – is accepted, «Jack Heart». Do try not to make a fool of yourself in the future – after all, your efforts in this regard are entirely supernumerary…. 😉
Henri
I really do hope the Vatican doesn’t get one of those toys that Mr Obama seems to enjoy so much. Of that organisation’s record when it did possess military power, one can only say with Aisopos’ fox : (i>Vestigia terrent !…
Henri
I love it. I just saw this, in a Reuters report: “Pope Francis said on Monday government officials have a ‘human right’ to refuse to discharge a duty, such as issuing marriage licenses to homosexuals, if they feel it violates their conscience.”
So we can all just stop beating the fantasy-drum about how kind and good this guy is. He wants to have a hand in politics? Then have him pay taxes like the rest of us. But he shouldn’t talk from a position of puported authority if he’s completely ignorant of how a non-theocratic form of government operates.
There is no “violation of conscience.” That’s been covered already. What a frickin’ hypocrite.
There is an easy solution – don’t take a job which violates your conscience.
If I recall correctly, CrazyH, Upton Beale Sinclair noted that it usually works the other way ’round….
Henri
Davis had that job before the gay marriage ruling, smart guy.
Alex,
I didn’t realize you were a fan of the “just following orders” rationale.
No, I’m not. This isn’t about blindly following rules. Invariably, the people who “just follow orders” are committing atrocities and then backpedaling because they don’t want people to think they’re monsters. The equation is invariably the denial of something to a group rather than the inclusion of a group when someone invokes the old “orders” argument.
Ted, I realise that Messrs Obama and Bergoglio continue to have much in common – two eyes, a nose, two arms, two legs each, etc, etc – but your junkies need a NEW comic ! It’s been more than a week, fer Chissakes – pardon the pun !…
Henri