The authoritarian government of Cambodia is currently cracking down on dissidents. They have suspended the right to assemble in public, rounded up political leaders that opposed the current government, in other words, the usual grab bag of repression.
I wish that people who don’t worry about the NSA, drones, indefinite detention, legalize torture, Guantánamo, and so on would consider how the Cambodian experience supplies to them.
It is, after all, only a matter of time before the US government faces some sort of challenge to its authority. Nobody knows how or when, but the fact is, civilians need the right to challenge or even change their government from time to time. Without that right, there is no freedom, and the government does not represent them in the least.
Even if you believe that the Obama administration or the next president or the one after that would never use tools like the NSA or drones or indefinite detention against American citizens – even though, in fact, they already have – what about the future?
The only way that we can protect our children and grandchildren’s generations from the kind of crackdown that we are seeing in Cambodia – amped up by awesome technology – is to make sure that that technology isn’t available to the government now.
As we are seeing currently in Cambodia, and have seen countless times before and will many times in the future, fighting back against a repressive regime is hard enough.
The last thing the revolutionaries and political dissidents of the future need are killer flying robots blowing them up with missiles as they march down the street. Or a government able to track them down with ruthless efficiency with the push of a button.
28 Comments.
If you actually wanted those tools out of the hands of government, you wouldn’t be working to empower the people who will use them to change us into a fascist theocracy.
What. The. Fuck?
Oh, that’s right. All critical analysis of the Democratic Party works to enable Republicans. Sorry, I forgot. I’ll go back to copying the alphabet now.
Oh, please. Typical deliberate misunderstanding of my point by the left, which is done because they’d rather obscure the point I’m making then deal with the consequences of their shitty attitudes.
There’s a line between intelligent criticism designed to support and strengthen the Democratic party and reflexive bashing which does nothing but bash the party for not delivering the impossible immediately, depress turnout and empower Republicans; though it does give those who engage in it a nice self-righteous glow about their own purity.
The left crossed that line 40+ years ago and have been accelerating away from it at warp speed ever since.
And they have the audacity and the gall to wonder why they are ignored and so little progress had been made on the issues they claim to care about, when in truth, all they need to do to see whose responsible for the lack of progress is look in the mirror.
Of course the actual problem is that ‘the Left’ has been holding their noses and voting for Reagan Dems and New Dems for decades. ‘Liberal? NO! Not me. That’s that word Republicans made everyone hate.’ Whimsical cannot admit this as it would shatter his worldview. We are in this mess because liberals expect so little of the Democrat Party, and therefore we get little. Shocking.
Right on cue. A member of the left complaining about the results of their shitty attitude, rather than changing said attitude cause they don’t want to lose the nice self-righteous glow of basking in their own purity.
Have a better attitude, you’ll get better candidates. It really is just that simple.
Some countries’ citizenry even up and demand to write new Constitutions. Imagine that.
So your failures are our fault?
I’ve been reading intelligent criticism of the Democratic Party for years now and it just keeps drifting further and further to the right.
An enslaved populace whose homosexuals can marry and who are allowed to smoke marijuana would still be an enslaved populace.
And if everybody who votes for these neoliberals because a third party candidate “can’t win” would face reality and vote for a third party candidate, maybe something would change…but probably not, since we have this Neanderthal electoral system where losers can win.
You can spout the virtues of incrementalism until the cows come home, but unfortunately, the cows are at the door and the wolves not far behind. It’s not enough and not fast enough. A deluded populace has dragged us all down, and you blame the left? Because we have the courage to speak the truth?
To put this in perspective, Whimsical…I gather you’re from That Blog. You know Tim Lange, that guy over there who everybody likes so much? You know how he posts quotes from himself from earlier years on his late night open threads?
He posted one a few years back dated 2004, in which he noted that if he didn’t believe we could turn climate disruption around in ten years, he’d devote himself to drinking tequila shooters and building furniture.
Happy 2014.
Well, that’s the thing, Miep. I no longer believe that the left will come to their senses and change their mind in time to fix things (though there is still time- just barely). I believe that the best I can do is to put off the collapse until after I die.
Why do I post then? Three reasons, really.
1) I’m an incurable optimist. While the rational 99% of me understands that the left will not come out of their bubble in time to fix things, there’s still that 1% which insists “well, they might…”
2) The left is too insular to get it, but I’m hoping they aren’t the only people who read Ted’s blog, and the other people might get it and help me stave off the collapse for just a while longer.
3) For the archeologists who, in a thousand years, after the revolution that overthrows the brutal thousand year fascist theocracy- will be going back through the remains of our civilization, and they’ll see that some of us got it. That some of us understood that a thousand year fascist theocracy didn’t have to happen.
I’m well aware of the problems of the left, most notably a tendency to schizm. But it is odd that you grant us so much power. I see the left in the USA as being increasingly marginalized in the context of an increasingly crazy public. And while it might be technically possible to turn things around, I don’t see how anybody could get things to change fast enough at this point. The disruption of the jet stream is already having severely adverse effects on agriculture and is driving up fossil fuel use with weather extremes. So we are not just working from a previously existing baseline, but facing an increasingly steep slope. And already the methane releases are happening in Siberia.
I don’t understand your game plan here about how we on the left are supposed to fix this. By pretending small improvements in civil liberties, combined with huge decreases in the same, are good enough as far as accomplishments go? That’s what you’re calling “gibberish,” my pointing that out.
“So your failures are our fault?”
No, of course not, because my way doesn’t fail. The complete failure to make much progress on liberal issues is ENTIRELY the fault of the left, however.
“I’ve been reading intelligent criticism of the Democratic Party for years now and it just keeps drifting further and further to the right.”
Because the shitty attitude of the left keeps PUSHING the Democratic party further and further to the right, duh.
“An enslaved populace whose homosexuals can marry and who are allowed to smoke marijuana would still be an enslaved populace.”
Irrelevant gibberish.
“You can spout the virtues of incrementalism until the cows come home, but unfortunately, the cows are at the door and the wolves not far behind.”
Oh, agreed. The left has been allowed to carry on with their shitty attitude till its almost too late. Any takers that they’ll wise up and change their attitudes in time to save us all? Yeah, didn’t think so.
“It’s not enough and not fast enough.”
Maybe, maybe not. But its all we’ve got that will work. The alternative is collapse, complete right-wing takeover, and years of enslavement under a fascist theocracy. And despite the deluded dreams of Ted and the modern left, that will be much, MUCH worse.
“A deluded populace has dragged us all down, and you blame the left?”
Well given that the left IS the deluded populace and its shitty attitude IS what is causing us to be dragged down- yeah, pretty much.
“Because we have the courage to speak the truth?”
Oh, please. The left doesn’t even know what the truth IS. Ive debunked lies posted by Ted and other leftists repeatedly, only to have them spouted again a day later.
And the sad part is they no longer have the capacity to understand they are spouting lies; in the purest sense of the word- saying the world is other than it is.
The left prefers to live inside their own head and try to deal with the world in the way they THINK the world should work, rather than deal with the world in the way it actually DOES work because somewhere along the way actually helping people became less important than being able to bask in the self-righteous glow of their own purity while they did so.
This is why they are colossal, impotent failures for the most part, and have been for the past 40+ years. And will continue to be until they accept reality, and the way the world actually IS and actually WORKS and change their attitudes and actions accordingly.
You’re arguing that we’re marginalized and irrelevant and that we have all this power at the same time. Which is it?
The deluded people who are dragging us down are the right. Remember them? The ones who think all life on earth other than straight white dudes are just stuff to use, or evil? The ones who aren’t worried about climate change because scientists are just a bunch of libtards?
What are you doing about them?
No, I’m telling you that you HAVE power, but the WAY you USE it is what makes you irrelevant.
Imagine if in the early 70’s rather than reject Nixon’s health care offer because it wasn’t EVERYTHING they wanted IMMEDIATELY, the left threw their power behind it, and supported it and grew it. We’d have single payer by now.
Instead, the left chooses to throw a tantrum and use their power to make sure Democrats lose because they don’t get everything they want immediately, and as a result the country moves right and the left becomes increasingly irrelevant.
As for the low-information right wing nutjobs you mention, they really aren’t the problem. Its the ones who convinced the left to act as their unwitting agents that are the real problem.
And what am I doing about them? Trying to get the left to wake the hell up, that’s what I’m doing.
As much as I like what you’re saying, Miep, you’re both missing the point. “Staving off collapse” will only make the collapse worse. The Great American Century (TM) was founded on the games the Fed plays with currency, debasing the supply and forcing the world to use the dollar. All of these economic problems we talk about come back to us going off the gold standard. If we were on gold, there would be no inflation, no trade deficits, etc. The collapse will come and it has nothing to do with left, right, or party politics. The longer the Fed prints ‘money’ the harder the fall will be.
LOL! A Paul-ite! That explains SO much!
Jack: I agree with you that collapse is inevitable.
Basically the problem I have with the Democratic party is this idea that there is some way to address the huge environmental problems we’ve created for ourselves without any significant changes in our lifestyles. It’s magical thinking. We could have slowed down the inevitable by investing in wind and solar 40 years ago, but ultimately one runs out of planet to mine. The only sustainable cultures are non-extractive ones, and that’s just too big and scary an idea for most people to get their heads wrapped around. I really can’t see all the developing countries going for it either, after having watched people like USAians go on their merry way for decades.
So it is tiresome to be expected to pretend to believe the Democrats have any kind of viable solution to offer, when what I’m increasingly seeing is a convergence at the top to prepare to crack down on the inevitable civic unrest that comes with such as food shortages.
No, I don’t want to live in a totalitarian state any more than you do. But we’re well on our way, and to argue that Obama is somehow slowing down this process is dishonest.
So because the Democratic party cant completely undo global warming (impossible) right now (immediately), we are to just give up on them and their solutions for all the issues, right?
Such a perfect example of the attitude of the left, and why it’s such a problem.
No, the Democrats cant fix everything completely right now. But that doesn’t mean their solutions aren’t viable starting points to work from towards the goal of fixing things.
The Democratic solutions are certainly more viable than the only other alternatives. Especially if you worked WITH them, and not AGAINST.
“But we’re well on our way, and to argue that Obama is somehow slowing down this process is dishonest.”
No, what’s dishonest is refusing to acknowledge that this process is going much slower under Obama than it would’ve under Romney, or McCain, or *gulp* President Palin.
See, you’re contradicting yourself again. You said you think the religious right aren’t that significant, except you are worried about a President Palin.
The right is indeed significant, because their penchant for crazy candidates is used to terrorize the left into voting for centrists.
An incremental approach to climate disruption is a day late and a dollar short at this point. Nonlinear systems are effectively impossible to predict over time, and the estimates for various tipping points keep getting backed up closer and closer to now. Top climate scientists like McPherson and Lovelock have written us off.
Doesn’t mean there is no point in trying to make the world a better place – after all, what else is there to do? But relying on Democrats to do it at a federal level ignores the kind of money it takes to get elected these days, and whose pockets it comes from. And it’s just a matter of time before the ability to address the effects of weather weirding runs out, as the money runs out. You’ll note that food stamps were recently severely cut. Looked at the prices of produce lately? How many more Boulder storms will we get this winter? It’s barely even started, there’s plenty of time yet.
No, the right is only significant when the left plays into the right’s hands and places them in positions of power.
That’s why President Palin would’ve been such a disaster, but the jerk down the street who denies global warming is irrelevant.
And you know why he’s irrelevant? Because we OUTNUMBER them. The number of stupid people in this country is actually very small.
The right wing is a minority. The reason they do so well in elections is because the shitty attitude of the left dramatically impacts the vast middle. Their constant negativity and bashing and repeating of false memes like “Both sides are the same” is what has caused the drastic decline of participation in American politics.
If the left would support any move left by the Democrats rather than bashing them for not moving left enough, fast enough, the vast middle would come down on their side and the right wing would never be a problem again.
“An incremental approach to climate disruption is a day late and a dollar short at this point. ”
Very possibly. But once again, its all we have that will work. The alternative is collapse, which will be far worse.
Whimsical: looking for support of politicians on a political cartoonist’s blog and making generalizations when you don’t find it is like assuming the pigs are all gone because you don’t see any flying around in the sky. And I think it’s hilarious that you believe people people sit out elections because of the left. They sit out elections like mad where I live; they also call me a socialist pig. I don’t think I’m exactly a role model.
And very few stupid people in this country? You must have a very low bar for intelligence.
@whimsical: we don’t need to speculate about why people sit out elections. We know. People have told pollsters. There have been numerous studies. The answer is clear: people don’t think that there is a significant difference between the two parties. And they don’t think that how they vote or whether they hope will change their lives for the better. Or, for that matter, for the worse.
Having carefully paid attention to politics all of my life, I am forced to agree that the apathetic nonvoters are probably right.
“Have a better attitude and you’ll get better candidates” is magical thinking. Clap three times and Tinkerbell will come. Also you guys seemed to think Obama was the second coming at the time. Well, except for the Clinton supporters, and I doubt she would have been much different.
The problem is systemic, but you don’t want to see that because it’s much more fun to pick on the Big Bad Left.
“The problem is systemtic” is ALWAYS code for: “Using the system the way it ACTUALLY works to get what I want will damage my purity, and I can’t have that.” The left has had its metaphorical head up its metaphorical ass for 40 years and now complains the problem is the system when it cant be fixed overnight. Especially when the only reason the system has gotten this out of whack is precisely because the left has had its head up its ass for forty years and refuses to do what is necessary to correct that.
“Magical thinking” is thinking that people are “waking up”, when the reality is they are dropping out faster than ever before, thanks to the left’s shitty attitude. And thinking that this mythical waking up is going to accomplish anything other than collapse and the ushering in of a thousand year fascist theocracy. And somehow arguing with a straight face that that’s going to be better than supporting Democrats who are insufficiently pure..
“The left did not invent religion and leftists frequently don’t support it, so why is it our fault that the religious right hangs onto these oppressive belief systems?”
Its not your fault that certain people hold on to those oppressive belief systems. It is ENTIRELY your fault that people with those oppressive belief systems are put in power.
If you’d change your shitty attitude, within a generation, the religious right would never get anywhere NEAR political office ever again.
But no, you’re too busy basking in the self-righteous glow of your own purity to change.
“And also, saying people should vote for Democrats because they’re not quite as bad as Republicans is effectively to argue things will go downhill slightly more slowly under Democrats, which is cowardly and selfish”
Bullshit. Its factual. Look up inertia sometime. Before things can go in the opposite direction, things need to slow down, and then stop.
Well we’ve had 40 years of going in the wrong direction, thanks to the left. Yeah, things are going to need go downhill more slowly, and then stop before they can turn around. But the left wont take its head out of its ass long enough for that to happen, and we all suffer for it.
What is cowardly and selfish is rooting and working for collapse just so you can keep bathing in the self-righteous glow of your own purity, rather than looking at the consequence of your shitty attitude and then do the hard work necessary to bring about real change.
“The power of incrementalism to effect change simply is no match for the vectors we’ve set in motion, both physical and social.”
Maybe, maybe not. But that’s insufficient reason not to fight like hell for it rather than trying to bring collapse about.
@Whimsical: ““The problem is systemtic” is ALWAYS code for: “Using the system the way it ACTUALLY works to get what I want will damage my purity, and I can’t have that.” ”
Actually, it means “The problem is systematic.” The implication is, if you don’t like the system, replace it with a new one.
Ted, the reason you don’t like the system and want a new one is that you’d rather replace the system than damage your purity by using it the way it actually works to get what you want.
You’ve made that perfectly and repeatedly clear.
Also, the right has issues with the left and the middle about abortion, women’s rights, race, and homosexual rights. They are not going to change their minds about this stuff because of anything the left does. The left did not invent religion and leftists frequently don’t support it, so why is it our fault that the religious right hangs onto these oppressive belief systems?
Jack: collapse can mean more than one thing. Economic collapse? The USA is badly overextended and the dollar is likely only still the reserve currency because everybody is afraid of us, though we’ll note that South American countries continue to try to kick our asses out. Collapse of civilization? All civilizations collapse eventually. Collapse of what we’re used to as climate patterns? Already happening. Collapse of fisheries and other oceanic life due to overfishing and now such as anoxia? Already happening.
And also, saying people should vote for Democrats because they’re not quite as bad as Republicans is effectively to argue things will go downhill slightly more slowly under Democrats, which is cowardly and selfish. It comes from a POV that maybe one can personally escape the horrors to come in one’s own lifetime, and screw the future generations, because it’s too scary to take chances.
The power of incrementalism to effect change simply is no match for the vectors we’ve set in motion, both physical and social. I don’t know whether anything is, but if we get through this, it won’t be because of a lot of dillydallying around on the federal level. It will come from the bottom, as people wake up. And that’s exactly what the PTB are afraid of and why all this surveillance and oppression.